Pre-tribulation rapture of the church, part3; which gospel?
Please read disclaimer in Part 1. What you are about to read is firmly based on the 1st and most important rule of Bible study: THINGS DIFFERENT ARE NOT EQUAL UNLESS THE BIBLE DEFINES THEM TO BE.
Now I want to make one thing clear: The Bible doctrine for the church of God is that salvation of a man's soul is wholly apart from any work, by the Grace of God without any admixture and that salvation cannot, once obtained, in any way be lost.
But that's for the church of God only. We eternal security folks somehow got it right for us. But then in trying to defend the position we did not study to divide the dispensations and have ended up with crazy interpretations to negate verses that most clearly teach loss of salvation,JUST NOT FOR THE CHURCH. The Bible is not doctrinally all for the church. Get that man, get that.
Let's cut to the chase and see why the
The key that settles the issue is Matthew 24:14.
Matthew 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
The Lord is saying that during the tribulation, the gospel OF THE KINGDOM shall be preached. Now what I'm about to say will cause even independent baptists to blow a casket. I am one, and thank the Lord for the good doctrine. But I had to submit to Bible doctrine, and the Bible is not a Baptist book.
Please observe how people who do not "DIVIDE the word of truth" stick their foot in their mouth
"Finally, Jesus made a profound statement in verse 14. He told the disciples the reason for the long delay in His coming back to earth. It is the completion of the task He assigned to the disciples, and to us as well. The gospel must be
preached among all nations before the end will come…"
Pasted from <;http://www.geocities.com/~lasttrumpet/od9.html
That this reading is bunk will be shortly displayed, but notice that according to the living word of God, the kind of gospel that can produce faith has already been preached to the entire world
Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
So what was the point of history rushing past Matthew 24:14 if these folks are right?
Paul is referring to Psalm 19:2-4. You can't get out of that one. The Holy Spirit is saying this was enough to produce faith in a man.
Colossians 1:5 For the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, whereof ye heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel;
Col 1:6 Which is come unto you, as it is in all the world; and bringeth forth fruit, as it doth also in you, since the day ye heard of it, and knew the grace of God in truth:
Colossians 1:23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;
Even if one argues that Paul is saying this in the sense that the gospel was designed for the whole world and was preached to every kind of human being, Jew or Gentile, you can still get a sense of the gospel's spread in Paul's day, bearing in mind that back then the world's population was about 150+ million. That's half today's
Now, they tell you "the gospel must be preached". That's NOT what Jesus said. He said "the gospel of the kingdom", not "the gospel". Remember the trump/trumpet problem? It's english folks, not greek.
You say " is there a difference?" Brother is there ever!
There is more than 1 gospel in the Bible. Don't freak out. I know your denomination would flip at that. So would mine. Patience, and check the scriptures.
Cyrus Ingerson Scofield, correctly identified 4 different forms the Gospel in the Bible (technically there are ten)
(1) The Gospel of the kingdom (Matthew 3:2; 4:17; 4:23; 8:12;
9:35; 10:7; 24:14, Daniel 2, 2 Samuel 7:16)
(2) The Gospel of the grace of God. (Acts 20:24)
(3) That which Paul calls, "my Gospel" (Romans 2:16, 1 Timothy 1:10-11)
(4) The everlasting Gospel (Revelation 14:6)
This is not private interpretation. This is the Bible's division, as it is found, where it is found.
Don't get upset at me. Check the verses. What you have to drill into your head, as I've had to do, is that THINGS DIFFERENT ARE NOT EQUAL UNLESS THE BIBLE EQUATES THEM. Once you get that, things will be smoother.
(2) the Gospel of the grace of God is the good news in this age that God will save any sinner by grace who will simply trust him by faith; this is the good news of Romans 4:5, Romans 10, Ephesians 2:8-9, Titus 3:5…
(The hyper-dispensationalists are off.technically There can be no specific period of time known as the "dispensation of the grace of God". God's grace towards man is evident from Genesis to Revelation in myriad ways)
(3) the gospel of the grace of God is also called "my gospel" by Paul in Romans 2:16. Paul's gospel is the gospel of the grace of God in its fullest development, involving the revelation of the called-out church, the body of Christ, made up of Jews and Gentiles.
(1) Matthew 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
The gospel of the kingdom is the gospel preached exclusively to the Jews,(Matthew 10:5-7) being confirmed by signs (Matthew 10:8), that the
kingdom of heaven (not
Matthew 10:22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.
Matthew 10:23 But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of
till the Son of man be come.
"The end" in the Bible is defined in Daniel as a period of time (tribulation) immediately preceding the literal coming of Jesus to set up his kingdom.
The disciples go over the cities and the Son of man (NOT "the Son of God")
does not return in glory. The prophecy could still have been fulfilled in Acts 2-7 had
Son of man did not return. But the prophecy stands and over-leaps the church
age. During the tribulation saved Jews will be fulfilling it. Note how
"the end" has "the gospel kingdom" being preached. It is no coincidence that Matthew and Revelation both have the same gospel;they're in similar dispensations; the law returns during the tribulation as we'll see.
So what does the Lord tell them to preach? Look at it again
Matthew 10:7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.
Now how can it be at hand with a set time if according to our last trumpet friends that actually means
"HEAR YE HEAR YE: the kingdom is at hand, we have to win you all to Christ before he can return and we're almost there. Repent, for the world is almost won to the Lord, and then He will return."
What nonsense man, what nonsense!
Anyway, Matthew 10:7 displays the gospel of the kingdom. Observe: No new-birth, no spiritual circumcision, no placement in the body of Christ.
Notice that the word "nations" is set in contra-distinction to the word "kingdom".
Matthew 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
Now if you've got people preaching a gospel "FOR A WITNESS" don't you think they are therefore WITNESSES? The witnesses in the tribulation are Jews.
This gospel of the kingdom (NOT THE GOSPEL THAT WAS COMMITTED
UNTO PAUL FOR THE CHURCH) involves loss of salvation (Matthew 8:12 But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.) because it involves keeping faith alive through works as described in James 2:14-26; which epistle is doctrinally written "to the twelve tribes" and not "unto the church of God" as Paul writes in 1 Corinthians 1:2.
Matthew 24:50 The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,
Mat 24:51 And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
That ain't no temporal judgment. You can't get out of this one with "well the servant wasn't saved to begin with". First off, that servant is one of "THE CHILDREN OF THE KINGDOM". I don't care what some scholar thinks it means. That's what it SAYS.
And besides last time I checked, God doesn't call lost folks to
ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season? Matthew 24:45
Numerous times you read of servants losing or in danger of losing their salvation, and the argument that they weren't saved is incredibly lame and ignorant of the Bible. You just learned that from Christian Education. Yes you did, follow the thread, you did!
Let me ask you this. If you believe that the believer cannot lose his salvation (WHICH IS TRUE FOR THE CHURCH AGE) and that the church goes through the tribulation, what, according to you would happen to a believer who takes the mark of the beast? If you say that wouldn't happen you don't know much about human nature and life, much less the Bible. And incidently, not taking the mark is a WORK!
Notice how salvation is described during the tribulation
Revelation 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed (those are Jews, the woman being
Revelation 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep (1)the commandments of God, and (2) the faith of Jesus.
That, my friend, is LAW if you ever saw it. And you need to KEEP the commandments during the tribulation.That's why the Lord Jesus says Matthew 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. That matches "the patience" of Revelation 14:12.
Observe the context of Matthew 24:
[A] It is the end of a time period, not an individual's life, (vs. 14).
[B] The land being discussed is
Are you living in
Well? Are you?
[C] The audience addressed are Jews, (vs. 1-3).
[D] They are observing Old Testament Law then, (24:20)
Why would the Lord refer to the Sabbath if the church is around?
Are you keeping the sabbath? Not unless you are a confused sabbathist!
The sabbath's proper context is the law. The law is in effect for somebody at this point!
You know why people insist on relegating this passage to the past, going against the entire flow of the body of scriptures? Because, especially if they are not pre-millennial, it messes up their way of figuring the Bible. They can't get the dispensations, or refuse to get them. They will read how temple sacrifices come back in the millennium according to Ezekiel and get an indigestion,
so they spiritualize the passages until they don't mean what they say.
Listen, if you are really preaching the gospel of the kingdom now, you are preaching another gospel and you are under a curse!
Galatians 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
Paul did not preach unto you anything connected with
[E] They are worshipping in a temple in
[F] They are physical, not spiritual Jews as in (Rom. 2:29).
[G] The Christian already has the promise that he will endure to the end if that is what is under discussion, (1 Cor. 1:7,8).
[H] The 2nd Coming follows the "end" in this passage, and not the Death of the believer, (24:14,21,29). So the passage is plainly a reference to a law-abiding Jew in
Let's look at Matthew 25 which retains the context of chapter 24.
Matthew 25:1 Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.
Mat 25:2 And five of them were wise, and five were foolish.
Mat 25:3 They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them:
Mat 25:4 But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps.
Mat 25:5 While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept.
Mat 25:6 And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.
Mat 25:7 Then all those virgins arose, and their lamps.
Mat 25:8 And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out.
Mat 25:9 But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves.
Mat 25:10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.
Mat 25:11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.
Mat 25:12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.
The virgins are not, repeat, not, the church as you've probably been taught.
Observe
(1) those involved are "virgins", plural, AS FOUND IN REVELATION 7 AND 14, not a "virgin", singular. The church is a singular virgin
2Corinthians 11:2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin (singular) to Christ.
Watch the Holy Spirit work out the distinction
Song of Solomon 6:8 There are threescore queens, and fourscore concubines, and virgins without number.
Son 6:9 My dove, my undefiled is but one; she is the only one of her mother, she is the choice one of her that bare her. The daughters saw her, and blessed her; yea, the queens and the concubines, and they praised her.
You have the tribulation Jews (Revelation 7,14) pictured as virgins and the
Psalm 45:13 The king's daughter is all glorious within: her clothing is of wrought gold.
Psa 45:14 She shall be brought unto the king in raiment of needlework (for the
marriage!): the virgins (are) her companions that follow her (after she is raptured for the marriage) shall be brought unto thee.
(2) They don't go forth to marry the bridegroom, they go to meet him.
(3) ALL had oil to start with (v.3) but some lose ALL OF THE OIL (v.8)
(4) there is an element of works connected with the Holy Spirit and salvation which David at least realized in Psalm 51:11! (Matthew 25:9,13, 15-20)
The virgins can lose their salvation (Matthew 24:51, Matthew 25:30) and consequently Hebrews 9:28 is a fair warning of a tribulation split-rapture. Notice "unto them that look for him"!
So the parable is accurate in detail(not only in general as scholars teach you;
see Proverbs 26:7) in describing a time where works justify and if you think that's heretical, you better have the guts to tell that to James (James 2:24) who anyway wasn't doctrinally writing to you, dear born-again Christian of the church
dispensation (James 1:1)
Now if oil is a type of the Holy Spirit, please explain the following:
How can a believer in the church-age lose ALL of the Holy Spirit?
If the 5 foolish virgins are lost and were never saved, how could they go and "buy" the Holy Spirit? See Acts 8:20
But look at Revelation 14 where the virgins are mentioned.
"Revelation 14:4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins…"
Now 8 verses later you read
Revelation 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, AND the faith of Jesus.
Works! Ah! The workings of the King James Bible! You may refuse to believe it but you would never go out and preach Revelation 14:12 as salvation doctrine today unless you were a lost Jehovah's witness. And well you wouldn't brother because you'd heap up a curse on your head if you did it in this dispensation.
Brothers, you have relegated all the New Testament teachings to Pauline church doctrine to gentile believers. That's Gentile conceit.
You see during the church age you cannot lose your salvation but you can lose it during the tribulation just like it could be lost in the Old Testament and just like it can be lost during the millennium.
While the Baptists are running to some original greek to explain away verses that deal with loss of salvation because they study not how to DIVIDE the word of the truth, you've got a bunch of folks even more mislead, saying that YOU, in the church age, can lose your salvation, misunderstanding and therefore confusing the gospel of the grace of God given to Paul with the gospel of the kingdom.
Have you never noticed how all the verses talking about or hinting at loss of
salvation, are always in books like Matthew's JEWISH OLD TESTAMENT gospel (the new testament isn't instituted until 26:28) or HEBREWS or James writing to the "TWELVE TRIBES" or Revelation discussing the tribulation.
Even if you disagree that there are verses that teach loss of salvation (by having been taught by theologians how to disbelieve the plain English text) those are still the books where those thorny issues are.
Don't you think that's a bit odd?
What? You mean you never thought that the Bible would still be around after the rapture for people to read it and understand the doctrine that would save them during the tribulation? If God's focus becomes the Jewish nation once more, don't you think Matthew, HEBREWS and James (see James 1:1) will be especially salient for the Jews with Revelation also which displays their tribulation?
Yet another way you know that the church does not go through the tribulation is that in the church age, all believers are placed in one body. A saved Jew now is no longer a Jew, he is a member of the
Galatians 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
But that's not what you have in the tribulation if you can read English.
Revelation 7:3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.
Rev 7:4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of
Remember James 1:1?
And then you have the Gentiles who are saved thanks to the ministry of the
144 000:
Revelation 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
Notice how the "nations" and "kindreds" and "people" are placed in contra-distinction to "the tribes of the children of
There is a differentiation there being made between saved Jews and saved Gentiles. You couldn't get that in the church age, no way.
Suddenly God starts off with the 70th week, while the church age is running, calls 144 000 folks who by definition are not in the body of Christ,
to preach a gospel which is not the gospel given to Paul, and win
gentiles which are not in the body of Christ, all this while the church is on
earth preaching something totally different, ignoring the Sabbath while a bunch
of folks are keeping it, and an angel is flying through heaven under the
condemnation of Galatians 1:8.
Great dividing of the word folks, just great. These guys have a
website running with over 600 000 hits. And they misleadingly call it "the
last trumpet" because they do not believe the words of the King James
Bible, even tough they use it. The Bible said "the last trump", not
"the last trumpet". But we've already covered that. 600 000+ hits on
a website that can't differentiate two english words.
There's your falling away folks, there it is; it ain't the doctrine of the
pre-tribulation rapture of the church.
Back to the gospel forms:
(4) "The everlasting gospel".Just as the Jews have their own "gospel of the kingdom" to be preached during the tribulation, so the Gentiles get to hear something specifically targeted at them, it is called "the everlasting gospel":
Revelation 14:6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,
Revelation 14:1 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the
could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.
These guys are not one body with any gentiles. How can parts of the same body not know the same song? You have separate groups of saved people in the tribulation. Get that.
How peculiar to single out nations, kindreds, tongues and people in one block, and the Jews in another, WHILE THE CHURCH IS SUPPOSEDLY STILL THERE.
We've seen that Matthew 25 is tribulation setting, just like Matthew 24.
Matthew 25:31 When the Son of man shall come in is glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
That's end of tribulation, beginning of millennium.
Nations are gathered, and some are saved, some lost, but they remain distinct
Nations! No one body stuff.There's no marriage of the church there! Find it if you can!
Now read the rest of the chapter, they go into the millennium based on works! Paul's gospel is not mentioned whithin 100 miles. How odd. The Lord Jesus is dealing with works, for which he gives a millennial inheritance. (In fact that's even true for the church! You read that right. Go search the word "inheritance" in the Epistles. Everytime it is connected with the kingdom, there's an element of works. The church-age believer who doesn't work doesn't inherit much in the millennium.) And those are works concerning the Jews, the brethren of Christ
Matthew 25:40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
Entire nations are judged based on their treatment of the Jew during the tribulation.Why? Because the gospel of the kingdom was being preached, and the kingdom is Jewish! It's clear.
Compare:
Matthew 10:40 He that receiveth you receiveth me, and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.
verily I say unto you, he shall in no wise lose his reward.
Now in the chapter, as we've seen, the Lord tells the Jews not to go to the gentiles but rather to the Jews. But at verse 42 he adds "whosoever". Gentiles who nevertheless get the chance to help the Jew out, figure in this judgment then.
Watch how closely vss. 40-42 agrees with Matthew 25:40.
So it's all about how the Jewish "missionaries" were treated. Now let me ask you. WHY ISN'T IT ABOUT HOW THE CHURCH WAS TREATED?
I shudder to suggest that maybe it's because the church wasn't there during the tribulation?!
Note that the Lord is on "the throne of his glory", not the great white throne judgment which is a 1000 years later.
The throne of glory is a Davidic Jewish throne.
Jeremiah 14:21 Do not abhor us, for thy name's sake, do not disgrace the throne of thy glory: remember, break not thy covenant with us.(Jews)
That's the context of the judgment, that's the context of Matthew 24-25. Jewish. Get that!
Another way you know that it has nothing to do with the treatment of the church (besides the fact that the church don't go through no tribulation) is that sheep and brethren are spoken of in the passage as distinct entities. The church is BOTH in the Bible.
The gentiles are from the beginning of the tribulation hearing the gospel of the kingdom, and at some point during the tribulation also hear
Revelation 14:7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.
Please also note that this message to the Gentiles is not
"fear God, and keep his commandments" (Ecclesiates 12:13)
as it is given to the Old Testament Jew, but
"Fear God, and give glory to him" (Revelation 14:7)
Look back at the verse. It is very reminiscent of Romans 1-2 which discusses gentiles without the law!
Galatians 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
Brother, if that angel showed up during the church-age he would be accursed! But he isn't. And his gospel is straight as an arrow. It is just not Paul's gospel! It’s as simple as: Different gospel=Different dispensation…different dispensation.
posted by Revelation 2:17 at 4:22 PM
4 Comments:
With regard to the Gospel of the Kingdom, I agree that there is a distinct Kingdom Gospel which was preached during our Lord's earthly ministry.
However, the dispensational change brought in by the Church is not revealed in the Gospels, so what Jesus meant by the preaching of the Gospel of the Kingdom is probably not the same as what He and His disciples were preaching before the cross.
We know that Paul was teaching the Kingdom at the close of Acts, so there is no problem with the Church preaching a Gospel of the Kingdom, whatever that means in the context of this dispensation.
I think the Sheep and the Goats is one of the more difficult passages for the Post-Tribulational position and there are several possible Post-Trib interpretations of it. Just as there are different Pre-Trib interpretations of a number of other passages.
Every Blessing in Christ
Matthew
I wish all blogs were like this one very informative and very interesting blog. Keep up the good work. I was in Panama recently and the ark of the covenant was discovered. The lost city of El Dorado is discovered in Chiriqui Panama. It is quiet interesting to see who is now taking responsibility for the exciting news. check out their link at http://thearkofthecovenantdiscovered.com/ Chiriqui archaeological sites. Exciting new news, revealed and exposed.
Good documentation. The only parts I disagree with are Revelation 4:1 being the rapture as it states that a door was opened "in" heaven and not to heaven. That door is the door to the throne room as evidenced in the scripture that follows in chapter 4.
The next point is this scripture which puts the church of Philadelphia in the tribulation.
Rev. 14:12 (Patience defined as faith and works)
12. Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus. Which points to:
Rev. 3:10 (The church of Philadelphia kept from the mark, not the church of Christ.)
10. Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.
How do you account for Moses age of going into the wilderness at age 80 and dying at age 120 when Joshua lead Israel into Canaan?
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